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#61 Kitsune Inferno

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 09:05 PM

In Islam, most people will go to hell. But there's something about it. Hell is not eternal in Islam. Depending on how many sins you've commited in your life, you may go to hell for anywhere between five minutes or five million years. But there's a gurantee that you will ascend to heaven, sooner or later. Hell, if you were a true saint, you could bypass hell altogether. That's what I heard.

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#62 draftermatt

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 10:10 PM

Well you see, that doesnt really make sense. If your future is already written out in "Gods book", that means that "free will" is just an illusion, and that no matter what you do, you are condemned.
So no matter what you do, you would have already had a reservation for hell when you were born, and there is no changing it...thats what it written in "Gods book".

I just dont get how God says that all of of humanity has "free will".
These paradoxes are mainly the reasons why I left religion alone.


1. I didn't mention any book.
2. How are you already condemned? If you say God forgive me as you are dying then you are forgiven for anything hell worthy.
3. How do we not have Free will? It is your own free will that allows you to question religion is it not? How is it an illusion? If you aren't sorry for anything bad you have done God will punish you however he sees fit.
4. Where in the Bible does it say you have a space written in hell for you? Have you even read the Bible?

I don't have a problem with your questions but half of what you say makes no sense to me. It's like you read me say free will and jumped to a lot of conclusions.
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#63 Gerard

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:15 AM

It's just that in the bible it does refer to God's book, and that our lives are planned and God knows what is going to happen. If that is true, then surely we cannot change that, hence there being no free will. If there IS total free will, then surely that indicates a lack of control...?

"I know that I am the first to argue that we are all God's creations and that our lives are planned in advance, but why would he give a life only to take it away." - a christian

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#64 Timmy Vermicceli

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:25 AM

It's just that in the bible it does refer to God's book, and that our lives are planned and God knows what is going to happen. If that is true, then surely we cannot change that, hence there being no free will. If there IS total free will, then surely that indicates a lack of control...?

"I know that I am the first to argue that we are all God's creations and that our lives are planned in advance, but why would he give a life only to take it away." - a christian

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Gerard, you took those words right out of my mouth!...besides the quote

But in regards to Draftermatts question, yes, I have read the Bible..and completely.
This is the way I see the Christian Bible, I see a book that has no real significance, only to the person who chooses to comprehend it...just like everything else on this earth.

I have actually known a few people in my life that dont read the Bible for any religious or spiritual reasons, but rather for a guideline instead. For the most part, they agree that the Bible has an enormous amount of inconsistencies, but that doesnt stop them from extracting very useful information from it.
Knowledge is knowledge, I wont disagree with that.

Edited by Timmy Vermicceli, 21 January 2007 - 12:41 AM.

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#65 Jace

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 05:03 PM

God has never said he has some kind of book. Humans did.
And the bible does contain lot's of wisdom. Some times I have to read a little part from the bible, not for any religous reasons. But for some important things that really help if you think of it in daily life (I'm a kindda bad tempered person), to bad I just never use it...

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#66 Timmy Vermicceli

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 01:08 AM

Ok, lets clear some things up....
First of all, has anyone here ever read every single version of the Bible?, no, so how would you know that there isnt a "book of god?", look on the internet and you will eventually find the reference.

Ok, lets assume that there isnt a "book of god", when someone refers to something with these
('') on a word, it doesnt necesarily mean that they are quoting from something in particular.
It could mean a number of things, for me Im refering to Gods all knowing knowledge, his ability to see past, present and future.

I just dont get how so many religious people dont even bother to comprehend certain aspects of the Bible, they just justify with some answer that they probably dont even understand..is that faith?

Give me your love or forever burn in hell, not just a few years or even centuries but for eternity. You hear me, ETERNITY!

Yeah, I would really like to worship this "loving" God.
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#67 Jace

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 06:02 AM

lol, yeah. But you won't ever go to such wierd place if you just live a normal life.


And yes, faith is believing is something you can't possibly prove...
That's why it's called faith/belief, and not fact.

Edited by Jace, 22 January 2007 - 06:02 AM.

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#68 Ciaran

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:18 AM

I am a strong Christian and I believe very strongly in our God, yes it is a bit 'far-fetched' that one almighty person created this universe but I was brought up to believe that he did and I will stick by that.

#69 Gerard

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 06:36 PM

You say you are staying Christian because that is what you were taught - does that mean you aren't going to formulate your own ideas? I hate the thought of just going along with what everybody else says, I like to think things though. Even at college all my teachers keep telling me I need to write all these essays to understand things, and it's not until I get a mediocre mark in the exam that I realise. By then I have experienced it and made my own mind up about it, and that's when I start doing something about it.

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#70 Bear

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 08:29 PM

Until I was 10 I grew up as a Catholic, until my dad left. Once he left and his beliefes left our house I began to formulate my own ideas.

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#71 Jace

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:00 PM

Quistion about the koran:
Does it actually endorse killing people who don't believe in the Islam?

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#72 Charger

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:11 PM

Quistion about the koran:
Does it actually endorse killing people who don't believe in the Islam?

Yeah I saw that on the TV, something about the using the Sword

btw im Catholic

#73 K9 Krew

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 12:44 AM

well i belive in no superior power but i do go to a angelic school where most of the school is christian.

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#74 *sasquatch*

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 03:16 PM

Being of a scientific mind i dont believe in God and i could pick holes in the Bible all day long......for example :innocent: ,if Adam and Eve were the first two people on the earth that would obviously make them the first children of God.If thats the case then they are by sense brother and sister and if we all decend from them that would make us all brother's and sister's.......which makes me ask if were all related and incest is a sin does that not mean were all f***ed from the start?? :lolbounce: :lolbounce: On a more serious note,i've been doin a bit of research recently on The Gospel of Saint Thomas which is apparently the actual words of Jesus Christ!! The church has claimed it is heracy because it goes against almost everything they stand for.It said the scroll was found near the Dead Sea Scrolls but not at the same time.Google it!! The St Thomas Gospel(if factual)i think makes Jesus sound like some kind of philosopher or scholar rather than a divine being.From what i've read Jesus was given his divine status by a bunch of drunken bishop's who just decided he was the son of god.I think Jesus was real and his myth has grown to ridiculous extent,mainly from people's fear of the unknown....DEATH!! The insecurity's of the human race as a whole have picked up on his philosophy and turned it into something i find ridiculous!! Religious people are just as scared and confused as everyone else and are just tryin to find something to make the understanding of life alot simpiler.After all that what i was really tryin to say is i think religion is alot of pish!! Your intitaled to your opinion as long as you dont force it apon others!!

http://www.gnosis.or...mm/gthlamb.html The Gospel of Saint Thomas (the gospel has an interesting outlook on women)

To Jace: I'm interested in this statement "lol, yeah. But you won't ever go to such wierd place if you just live a normal life.".Please can you define normal(or what you consider as normal)??

Edited by *sasquatch*, 15 February 2007 - 03:23 PM.


#75 Jace

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 03:46 PM

A normal life in my eyes is a live without sins. So stuff like: Do not kill, rob or envy people. And is I think going to prostituets also is wrong. And if you would have a "normal" life; what would you ever lose anyways. Even if there isn't any god.

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#76 *sasquatch*

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 09:03 PM

A normal life in my eyes is a live without sins. So stuff like: Do not kill, rob or envy people. And is I think going to prostituets also is wrong. And if you would have a "normal" life; what would you ever lose anyways. Even if there isn't any god.


lol where did prostitute's come into it?? :lolbounce: :lolbounce:
No modern life is without "sin". There are "apparently" 7 deadly sins.I guarantee you tick at least 2 of these!!

Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.

Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.

Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.

Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Normality cannot be defined by one person as it vary's from one to another!! Therefore there is no normal(spoon :rolleyes: )!!

Edited by *sasquatch*, 15 February 2007 - 09:06 PM.


#77 #1 canuck fan

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 05:34 AM

Im a sikh but i eat beef (sad) and cut my hair but i dont smoke or lie
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#78 Gycu

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 06:40 AM

Well I`m Orthodox...a religion specific to the Eastern Europe Countries...I don`t go too often at Church, but sometimes when I have some spare time, maybe, I pray everyday before I go to sleep...Altough people believe in God, the science proves it not...IMO the Universe was created from the Big Bang, and the scientists estimate that The Universe is about 15 billion years, how did the BBang happened, maybe it was God...and maybe God didn`t create Adam and Eve, maybe he helped the evolution of man kind...But I dunno what to believe right now...

A normal life in my eyes is a live without sins. So stuff like: Do not kill, rob or envy people. And is I think going to prostituets also is wrong. And if you would have a "normal" life; what would you ever lose anyways. Even if there isn't any god.


Maybe without major sins, `cuz we all commit sins, if you swear, is a sin, if you fight with your parents is a sin etc.
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#79 Spaz The Great

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 07:28 PM

A normal life in my eyes is a live without sins. So stuff like: Do not kill, rob or envy people. And is I think going to prostituets also is wrong. And if you would have a "normal" life; what would you ever lose anyways. Even if there isn't any god.


lol where did prostitute's come into it?? :lolbounce: :lolbounce:
No modern life is without "sin". There are "apparently" 7 deadly sins.I guarantee you tick at least 2 of these!!

Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.

Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.

Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.

Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Normality cannot be defined by one person as it vary's from one to another!! Therefore there is no normal(spoon :rolleyes: )!!


Pride is a sin, yet they tell us to have good self-esteem and to be PROUD of ourselves.

Envy is acknowledging that someone has something of value. It is a compliment on their part. Why the HELL is that bad?

Events like THANKSGIVING and CHRISTMAS((both are holidays most Christians celebrate)) have a BIG meal where almost everyone INDULGES in A LOT OF FOOD. That, is therefore a sin. Irony?

Feeling good is a natural human desire. We all like to feel good. Pleasure isn't anything wrong.

Anger exists in most people. Everyone usually gets mad about something. It is usually ignorance and stupidity which causes anger, whether it's the angry person's stupidity or that of someone else. Either way, you can't be considered a bad person for getting mad at a bad person. That's stupid.

Desiring wealth? Most people desire wealth. It's a good thing to have. It allows you to live comfortably and possibly have a less stressful life. Making that a sin is also, retarded.

We all get lazy sometimes. And y'know, a lot of people just don't like to do much physical labor. Taking a vacation/break and maybe enjoying a nice back massage or soaking in a hot tub would be, by that definition, sloth. And thus, a sign.

According to these "evil sins", humans are not suppose to be comfortable, not suppose to be happy, and not suppose to enjoy themselves. Congratulations, Christianity, you have failed me again.


Honestly, how can anyone consider those sins? It's STUPID.

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#80 V

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 07:32 PM

Is that out of the bible?

The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain,
for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.





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