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GTA v PC Version

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I highly doubt rockstar would have neglected a PC release anyway, since the entirety of the GTA series that has been multi-platform (ie on both xbox/360 and ps2/3) have also made it to PC. They ported IV (to whatever standard) despite using an entirely new engine, and despite that fact that coding on that new engine for new systems was probably pretty draining. Yeah, we didn't get red dead, and we don't know why... but it was a new franchise and maybe the guys upstairs (T2) wanted it that way. Max Payne 3 made it to PC, and the port was apparently pretty good, with a handful of sources making comments about the loading times, (I happen to think if you complain about load times in a game you're an idiot but hey.) which indicates rockstar have had a little more experience with the engine and are prepared for a PC release.

On top of this, not releasing to PC when the modding community is so prevalent is commercial suicide. GTA has one of the most dedicated fan bases there is, people still regularly play, create content for and make machinimas and so on for SA as well as IV. They're an intelligent company, very aware of the industry in which they operate and I think they know what the right decision is from both an image and financial standpoint.

inb4hastilycobbledtogetehrragefromnomemberinparticularimeanfortheloveofgodgooutside

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While I'm glad to see there are still people who give a shit, I have to inform you that all they've done is give Rockstar a reason to call PC gamers ungrateful brats.

Rockstar are going to release it on PC regardless, it's still a huge money maker and they know it. Problem is that, much like GTA IV, LA Noire and Max Payne 3, they are going to release it as a cash-in, low budget, half-developed port. So basically PC gamers are now pissed cause Rockstar is delaying the PC version, and after it's released they will be pissed that Rockstar released it as mentioned above. Course, I could be wrong, they might not release it at all. I was dead sure they were going to release Red Dead Redemption on PC at some point...

If whoever made this petition really wanted to help (petitions never help but whatever) he / she should have waited till the game was out and petitioned a re-release or a proper patch. I'll sign anyway since it's too late to fix anything now...

It probably won't be the idiots at Rockstar Toronto who port it this time, since they were merged with the idiots at Rockstar Vancouver. Rockstar Leeds maybe? They ported TLaD and it's not hard to notice that it runs better than IV and TBoGT.

And the only PC game Chris cares about is Call of Duty :-P

Edited by TUN3R

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They will surely release it on pc after they have released it on consoles. They will just delay the pc version a little bit though and it is a healthy move for the company too considering the fact that all previously released GTA titles were sold out more on consoles rather than PCs.

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They will surely release it on pc after they have released it on consoles. They will just delay the pc version a little bit though and it is a healthy move for the company too considering the fact that all previously released GTA titles were sold out more on consoles rather than PCs.

They sold more on consoles because they came out earlier on those. In the case of GTA IV it was also due to shitty console to PC transition... If they'd all come out at the same time and be given the same attention then Sony and Microshofth would be left with much lighter pockets.

It's most curious that almost every site I've visited so far (including Wikipedia) doesn't show the PC sales...

Edited by TUN3R

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Already been posted about, and as mentioned before, there's little doubt in most gamer's minds that the PC version will come for ultimate AAA title, but I believe Red Dead Redemption to be the best Rockstar game outside of GTA and just about everyone elses' AAA title, so it does need to come to PC, that's the one you need to harp on Rockstar about, I believe because the game is not Rockstar North, but rather San Diego, it proves a bigger challenge to move to PC hardware, but just the same, I doubt it's impossible, do you????

@Tuner, the only reason they gave regarding PC for RDR was that there was no plans at this time, and basically the same was said or holds true with GTA V, the concentration was on consoles, Microsoft can benefit in either regard because GTA IV was issued for PC under Games for Windows Live, MS's gaming division, and those using Windows bed know that Direct 3D Direct X API used for gaming is also their baby

The problem remains cost and resources, the people at Rockstar with PC game making know-how are rather lacking I'd say, the time and energy and cost are all factors regardless on if the game can be developed asset wise in the same space of time

Edited by BlackListedB

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Already been posted about, and as mentioned before, there's little doubt in most gamer's minds that the PC version will come for ultimate AAA title, but I believe Red Dead Redemption to be the best Rockstar game outside of GTA and just about everyone elses' AAA title, so it does need to come to PC, that's the one you need to harp on Rockstar about, I believe because the game is not Rockstar North, but rather San Diego, it proves a bigger challenge to move to PC hardware, but just the same, I doubt it's impossible, do you????

So let me get this straight... games created ON PC, using PC SOFTWARE, with alpha testing done ON PC, has difficulties being made to RUN ON PC? Oh there are difficulties porting it to PC... then why port it and not develop it normally? Along with the console versions? For the sake of increasing sales on the somewhat less-pirated console versions that's why. I wonder if it ever crossed Rockstar's mind that their sales might increase if their product quality wasn't total s*it on PC, or that although GTA San Andreas was the most pirated PC game in 2005 it was also the best selling one...

@Tuner, the only reason they gave regarding PC for RDR was that there was no plans at this time, and basically the same was said or holds true with GTA V, the concentration was on consoles, Microsoft can benefit in either regard because GTA IV was issued for PC under Games for Windows Live, MS's gaming division, and those using Windows bed know that Direct 3D Direct X API used for gaming is also their baby

Wikipedia disagrees: http://en.wikipedia....Dead_Redemption

In the ''Greedy motherf*ckers'' language, ''not planed'' translates to ''we haven't began workin' yet but we will release a low-budget port once we figured we can't squeeze any more money out of the consoles and make a s*it ton of money out of that instead".

The problem remains cost and resources, the people at Rockstar with PC game making know-how are rather lacking I'd say, the time and energy and cost are all factors regardless on if the game can be developed asset wise in the same space of time

The reasons, for neglecting PC gamers in general, are as follows:

-Microsoft, mostly, as well as other evil companies like EA, Take-Two or Activision constantly shutting down, bribing, buying out or ''enslaving'' other developers.

-Developers focusing more on creating hype rather than actual development, PC fans don't get hyped so easy since some or most (depending on the game) might not be able to run the game or run it well. Therfor the console market is a more convenient ''work'' field, douchebags.

-Console prices constantly droping and clients never realizing that hardware and service quality are droping as well (or that console games are also more expensive, on the long run, console gaming is way more expensive than PC gaming). You got HBO on Xbox Live, good for you. Did you notice that it also scratches your discks every time you accidentally nudge the table or a power surge hits?

(one million reasons later)

-The economy.

Edited by TUN3R

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You can never assume how games are made 'on a PC', developer kits go out that are based around the CONSOLE, for those making games geared for console, this is rather common knowledge, I never use the word port, unless we know that's how a game transitions from console to PC or multiplatform, it still doesn't ever bode well for confidence in the result, so I don't like that word PORTED to be honest

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You can never assume how games are made 'on a PC', developer kits go out that are based around the CONSOLE, for those making games geared for console, this is rather common knowledge, I never use the word port, unless we know that's how a game transitions from console to PC or multiplatform, it still doesn't ever bode well for confidence in the result, so I don't like that word PORTED to be honest

???

Try making sense please... just, focus, it's not hard.

Anyway your so called "common knowledge" comes from the Xbox forums. I admit I starget getting a better idea of how things work since I started learning C, but it doesn't take a lot of computer know-how to realize that all of today's applications are made on PC's, using software designed to work on PC, not on Windows sure (although some games like GTA IV do feel like they were made on a virused PC running Windows 95 Beta...) but at their core the are programs, just like the games.

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I made perfect sense, if you read what you quoted and your OWN response, you assume, as you should never do, that Rockstar create their software on a PC and then port it to consoles, and going MULTIPLATFORM, meaning Xbox360 and Playstation 3 is not that hard, the PC native programming happens across the board, or so you summize to tell me in the above, explain yourself further before accusing me of not making sense.

As I said rather plainly, a DEVELOPER KIT is sent to developers, what goes on in designing and programming both consoles and software is not general knowledge to the consumer, if it were, you better point out where you got that gem of an idea, it's not true

What is known at least by me from history spent reading about the games is that GTA was developed originally on PC, that's easy enough to make sense of, but what may have been missed is that GTA IV developed for Playstation with some degree of difficulty, Sony was called in to help with programming GTA IV running on the PS3 Cell. This was reported in a link to GTAForums while I was there, not any Xbox forum, I was never a member of this Xbox forum you mention. I own both consoles and PCs as well as laptops, I multitask!

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I made perfect sense, if you read what you quoted and your OWN response, you assume, as you should never do, that Rockstar create their software on a PC and then port it to consoles, and going MULTIPLATFORM, meaning Xbox360 and Playstation 3 is not that hard, the PC native programming happens across the board, or so you summize to tell me in the above, explain yourself further before accusing me of not making sense.

That's what I was doing, I stated facs, even posted a link that showed you were wrong, but obviously you weren't even reading decided to ignore them like the fanboy that you are.

Anyway umm... WTF? Do you seriously expect me to make sense of that? You contradicted yourself twice just in that one sentence (bold).

As I said rather plainly, a DEVELOPER KIT is sent to developers, what goes on in designing and programming both consoles and software is not general knowledge to the consumer, if it were, you better point out where you got that gem of an idea, it's not true

Contradiction once more. Anyway, YOU better point out where you got your idea :) Who sends the developer kit (whatever the hell that is) to the developer? Jesus?

What is known at least by me from history spent reading about the games is that GTA was developed originally on PC, that's easy enough to make sense of, but what may have been missed is that GTA IV developed for Playstation with some degree of difficulty, Sony was called in to help with programming GTA IV running on the PS3 Cell. This was reported in a link to GTAForums while I was there, not any Xbox forum, I was never a member of this Xbox forum you mention. I own both consoles and PCs as well as laptops, I multitask!

That's an understatement. The PS2 at least could barely run GTA San Andreas, and it dragged the other versions down because game developers believe everybody is equal except PC gamers.

Anywho, normally I'd ask you for that link but tbh I don't give a damn. It's probably true, but it's just more proof that Rockstar North only gets involved in the development of the console versions.

Edited by TUN3R

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I'm not trying to get on your bad side, BTW, I take exception to this Fanboy ranting whether I'm accused or not, I do want to argue the facts, and solely the facts have any REAL bearing, and the facts are DMA and Rockstar North focused on two different platforms, it's also true Sony came in and helped Rockstar iron things out while the Xbox version was held up for simultaneous release with the PS3, this time Rockstar have spent their resources maximizing all that effort for GTA 5, it's rather obvious when you think about it, This maybe the last GTA for the current consoles, PCs will scale and evolve as they always do

I am not wrong at all, you're interpreting me wrong, good sir, what the DEVELOPER KIT aims to do is offer a workable development platform for software makers, of all sorts, whether in house or not, it makes no nevermind, the point is this is not shared information with the general public, it's under an evolving phase and nothing is complete until the systems are out and the games are written, coded and completed

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I'm not trying to get on your bad side, BTW, I take exception to this Fanboy ranting whether I'm accused or not, I do want to argue the facts, and solely the facts have any REAL bearing, and the facts are DMA and Rockstar North focused on two different platforms, it's also true Sony came in and helped Rockstar iron things out while the Xbox version was held up for simultaneous release with the PS3, this time Rockstar have spent their resources maximizing all that effort for GTA 5, it's rather obvious when you think about it, This maybe the last GTA for the current consoles, PCs will scale and evolve as they always do

I am not wrong at all, you're interpreting me wrong, good sir, what the DEVELOPER KIT aims to do is offer a workable development platform for software makers, of all sorts, whether in house or not, it makes no nevermind, the point is this is not shared information with the general public, it's under an evolving phase and nothing is complete until the systems are out and the games are written, coded and completed

None of that is "obvious", hell I'm still trying to make sense of what you're saying. You can back up your defensive arguments with proof or you can keep being subjective, like all fanboys are. I already showed mine.

What's obvious is that Rockstar release games on PC just to bank some extra cash and to screw up the competition's plans (comptetition that, for the most part, actually want to deliver a well made PC game, like Volition or 2K Czech).

Edited by TUN3R

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I can't do all the leg work of 8 years plus spent at GTAForums and the magazines I also personally bought, suffice to say I'm in my 40s, I've been around longer then these guys making the games, I don't do anything but take my gaming seriously, SERIOUS FUN that is, I can try and find archived articles from GTA IV's time of release, but you should be able to nonetheless...it's just a challenge that's very time consuming. I submit to memory the facts I did read in my time as a forumite of GTAForums, and as I said, magazines covering GTA prior to even joining GTAForums or these forums, but I've been dedicated to GTA in particular since Vice City's release.

The point I made earlier stands, Rockstar North and Rockstar Games is the Housers heading in the console area, not PC based games as DMA did starting the company originally

Edited by BlackListedB

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I can't do all the leg work of 8 years plus spent at GTAForums and the magazines I also personally bought, suffice to say I'm in my 40s, I've been around longer then these guys making the games, I don't do anything but take my gaming seriously, SERIOUS FUN that is, I can try and find archived articles from GTA IV's time of release, but you should be able to nonetheless...it's just a challenge that's very time consuming. I submit to memory the facts I did read in my time as a forumite of GTAForums, and as I said, magazines covering GTA prior to even joining GTAForums or these forums, but I've been dedicated to GTA in particular since Vice City's release.

The point I made earlier stands, Rockstar North and Rockstar Games is the Housers heading in the console area, not PC based games as DMA did starting the company originally

Finally. Yes that's true, but it's also wrong (wrong as in bad). You don't make multiplatform games and focus on some of them more than on the others (or not at all, like Rockstar). That's like making a car for the US, European and Asian markets but build only the ones destined for the US and European market properly, leaving the poor Japs' cars without seatbelts and the possibility of breaking down every five minutes. That's been my point all along.

If they don't want to make proper PC games then don't make PC games at all! Let Volition and the others do it!

Edited by TUN3R

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Well, I'm not wrong, I'm pretty sure about what I present as facts to the best of my knowledge, no joking in that either, I'm serious. It's been nearly 10 years as a GTA fan for myself, and I try and hold on to the gems of knowledge that have passed since that time, so what I'm doing is bringing those up for this discussion, I don't have links to ten years of online posts, or magazine scans, but you can certainly try cross-referencing any of what I suggest, I just take some exception to be calling untruthful about the information, I would say we as consumers aren't "in" on the decision or development process, so we can only speak about what is known from that type of information that gets out or is historically accurate as a methodology and as you said, Rockstar chosing SOME PC game versions and none for other releases is one of those we use historical data to supplant any idea on what they MIGHT do in the future

The idea to just petition them from the consumer end is about the best plan, but keep bringing it up via Mouthoff or the Q AND A with ROCKSTAR and let them know, Red Dead Red deserves it's day on PC platforms as well, and hopefully they're adding staff that might be proficient to that end

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Well, I'm not wrong, I'm pretty sure about what I present as facts to the best of my knowledge, no joking in that either, I'm serious. It's been nearly 10 years as a GTA fan for myself, and I try and hold on to the gems of knowledge that have passed since that time, so what I'm doing is bringing those up for this discussion, I don't have links to ten years of online posts, or magazine scans, but you can certainly try cross-referencing any of what I suggest, I just take some exception to be calling untruthful about the information, I would say we as consumers aren't "in" on the decision or development process, so we can only speak about what is known from that type of information that gets out or is historically accurate as a methodology and as you said, Rockstar chosing SOME PC game versions and none for other releases is one of those we use historical data to supplant any idea on what they MIGHT do in the future

The idea to just petition them from the consumer end is about the best plan, but keep bringing it up via Mouthoff or the Q AND A with ROCKSTAR and let them know, Red Dead Red deserves it's day on PC platforms as well, and hopefully they're adding staff that might be proficient to that end

You're not making sense again...

Happy new year by the way.

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DO NOT say I'm not making sense without explaining your way of thinking and/or perception, I know what I typed, dude, it's not a bunch of nonsense, help me to help you get it straight in your mind. I have Aspergers and I'm told that presents some communication difficulty, but I know what I typed, for gosh sakes!

2K is part of Take 2 Interactive I assumed, though I just didn't do research enough on that, but what I told as the basics history of GTA, Rockstar, and DMA is all based on fact, not whimsical fanboy musings.

I keep reading Rockstar's Newswire like most of us, they don't single out PC gamers when it comes time to do some Multiplayer events, they never really addressed PC gaming deficiencies because I doubt you'd make a point of areas where YOU have difficulty and can't show your OWN best side, would you?

Would you handily admit your own deficiencies?! This is why I believe Rockstar don't make an open issue of the PC versus console releases they've done so far, or continue to do. I'm being unbiased on this, not choosing sides, PC or console, I just choose console gaming for the same reasons millions of other gamers also do. I challenge you to walk into Gamestop and find a PC section nearly as large as any ONE console variety section in the store, I've yet to see one. The PC section of the store in Minneapolis is about 4 shelf spaces at best! Target has more PC games, but most are basic, no-name games, not A-list titles, or even ones available on console, so it just presents something more of a head-scratcher for ya.

Edited by BlackListedB

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DO NOT say I'm not making sense without explaining your way of thinking and/or perception, I know what I typed, dude, it's not a bunch of nonsense, help me to help you get it straight in your mind. I have Aspergers and I'm told that presents some communication difficulty, but I know what I typed, for gosh sakes!

You just did. Sorry to hear about it.

2K is part of Take 2 Interactive I assumed, though I just didn't do research enough on that, but what I told as the basics history of GTA, Rockstar, and DMA is all based on fact, not whimsical fanboy musings.

I keep reading Rockstar's Newswire like most of us, they don't single out PC gamers when it comes time to do some Multiplayer events, they never really addressed PC gaming deficiencies because I doubt you'd make a point of areas where YOU have difficulty and can't show your OWN best side, would you?

It's already pretty obvious how thin your research was.

FYI: Facts are ether the real things that you back up with proof or the real things that are so obvious even the CIA couldn't contest them, not the subjective fanboy BS.

Would you handily admit your own deficiencies?! This is why I believe Rockstar don't make an open issue of the PC versus console releases they've done so far, or continue to do.

So... they don't make them, but they used to, and they still are? You wanted proof that your articulation sucks, here it is, with the pretty colors and everything.

I'm being unbiased on this, not choosing sides, PC or console, I just choose console gaming for the same reasons millions of other gamers also do. I challenge you to walk into Gamestop and find a PC section nearly as large as any ONE console variety section in the store, I've yet to see one. The PC section of the store in Minneapolis is about 4 shelf spaces at best! Target has more PC games, but most are basic, no-name games, not A-list titles, or even ones available on console, so it just presents something more of a head-scratcher for ya.

I won't find one. Mainly because we don't have Gamestop here, but also because, PC gaming at least, evolved to the point where CD's or DVD's that you can scratch or lose have become very unpractical.

Now I dare you to find me a bigger / better digital distribution service than Steam on PC / Mac. Hell, I doubt you'll even find a better digital distributor on consoles than Origin on PC...

I also dare you to compare the best selling game franchises and see which of them sold most. I know you're too lazy to even do a proper research before getting your fanboy on, so allow me to lay down the facts for you. Here's the Top 10, excluding Mario, Pokemon and Tetris, since those existed waaay before gaming even became a serious industry, Tom Clancy's series because they aren't just one series, it's just that the person behind them was smart enough to put his name in the title of every single one, and Final Fantasy because it has more games than I care to or can affor to count and compare.

1. Mario

2. Pokemon

3. The Sims (Over 102 milion copies worldwide, new release every year AVERAGE, not actually every year. It has only a handful of games but more than a ton of expansions that were distributed and costed as much as the games, yet they sold. Mainly a PC series, 90% of sales being for the PC versions)

4. Tetris

5. Final Fantasy

6. Grand Theft Auto (over 80 milion copies worldwide), new release every 2 years average, mainly Sony, Xbox and Windows PC platforms, sold in almost equal amounts on every platform but keep in mind that most PC versions came out a few months after the console versions)

7. Madden NFL (over 70 miion copies worldwide, new release every year since 1988, almost every popular platform, no particularly high sales on any platform)

8. FIFA (over 65 milion copies worldwide, new release every year since 1993, shitload of platforms, but for the most part the Sony platforms' versions seem to have sold best, most sites estimate around 2/5 of the copies were sold on PS3, 1/5 on Xbox, about the same on Nintendo and the last bit on all the other platforms)

9. Legend of Zelda (over 52 milion copies worldwide, new release every 1.5 years average, multiple platforms but all Nintendo,)

10. Tom Clancy's Series

I've done my homework. Good luck.

Edited by TUN3R

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Let's focus on the articulation argument about Rockstar releasing PC versions of SOME games, what I was saying in the whole of the quote is that it's sporadic and odd in what was PC and console versus Console only, and what we'd ALL like to know is if Rockstar is doing game releases that way based on individual workloads per studio segment, it's now under the Umbrella of ROCKSTAR GAMES versus, in the past, having North clearly denoted as the development studio.

Steam has won any current contest for downloading software, but that's not really relevant to the segment size of console gaming.

It's just very easy to program for the same hardware specs, no matter how you opt to slice that, it's always a fact that the hardware of a particular console is set in stone, a PC differs from model to model

We also don't know how many people specifically work for Rockstar or on what game at any given time. What has been divulged is that the Housers are Taskmasters, they press their staff of workers like Steve Jobs did with Apple Engineers, in a similar relationship you can imagine. I'm using as a clearer example of what has come out in the forums and leaks, etc. A news-story about the San Diego team pointed out some issues with this workload tasking, as well, someone who did work there said they would have to switch projects based on some upper level management decision, I can't say how much truth there is there, but it's NEVER been said otherwise, I can tell you that much. Rockstar has never gone on record about these issues, and it's not hard to guess why either.

If you take all the little factoids or information surrounding Rockstar and add them together, you get a better idea of the big picture, that's my take anywho

Edited by BlackListedB

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(irrelevant bullshit)

Ok.

Steam has won any current contest for downloading software, but that's not really relevant to the segment size of console gaming.

It's just very easy to program for the same hardware specs, no matter how you opt to slice that, it's always a fact that the hardware of a particular console is set in stone, a PC differs from model to model

Consoles aren't made of stone, litteraly or metaphorically (since a third of them break). And they differ from model to model too.

We also don't know how many people specifically work for Rockstar or on what game at any given time. What has been divulged is that the Housers are Taskmasters, they press their staff of workers like Steve Jobs did with Apple Engineers, in a similar relationship you can imagine. I'm using as a clearer example of what has come out in the forums and leaks, etc. A news-story about the San Diego team pointed out some issues with this workload tasking, as well, someone who did work there said they would have to switch projects based on some upper level management decision, I can't say how much truth there is there, but it's NEVER been said otherwise, I can tell you that much. Rockstar has never gone on record about these issues, and it's not hard to guess why either.

Speak for yourself. I'm not talking in anybody's name, maybe you should do the same.

Anyway... umm, what?

If you take all the little factoids or information surrounding Rockstar and add them together, you get a better idea of the big picture, that's my take anywho

That's what I am doing. That's what pisses these dumbass fanboys off so badly.

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I'm not getting too hot under the collar about it, I take what good comes out eventually, that's all we really can do other then let Rockstar know, and if petitioning is the most effective, certainly go that route, I just urge others to keep letting them know so they can't push the issue under the carpet. That's how it becomes reality, if at all.

"speaking in anybody's name", how else do you get to the facts? That's the way I see how, offer up what news bytes have come along in the years spent following GTA, and you basically seem to write those off because I offered them to you instead of the supposed mouth that feeds, I pointed out that you clearly can't expect the Housers or a Rockstar Spokesperson to clarify rumors or articles that don't show them in a good light, do you? HONESTLY, answer that if anything, for me??

Edited by BlackListedB

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I'm not getting too hot under the collar about it, I take what good comes out eventually, that's all we really can do other then let Rockstar know, and if petitioning is the most effective, certainly go that route, I just urge others to keep letting them know so they can't push the issue under the carpet. That's how it becomes reality, if at all.

FYI: Rockstar don't give a damn about what ANYBODY says, customer or otherwise. They never have, they never will, and for good reason. Most of the fans don't give proper feedback and just ask for stupid crap that will only ruin the game. "GUH BRIN BACK TONY VERCETITI!!11 REMAKE GTA VIEC CTY IN HD FOREVER!!11".

"speaking in anybody's name", how else do you get to the facts? That's the way I see how, offer up what news bytes have come along in the years spent following GTA, and you basically seem to write those off because I offered them to you instead of the supposed mouth that feeds,

Yes well like I said earlier, you need to pick up a dictionary. FACTS aren't something you make up by pretending that you and god knows how many people have the same idea, facts are something that was proven (or lied about by a very big number of people, or someone very infulential, if you're into history).

I pointed out that you clearly can't expect the Housers or a Rockstar Spokesperson to clarify rumors or articles that don't show them in a good light, do you? HONESTLY, answer that if anything, for me??

Umm... I do, actually. I doubt it would hurt them more if they came clean rather than hide the truth.

I mean, the fanboys won't give a shit... and the rest of us would ether apreciate it or doubt Rockstar. I and a decent number of people I know (also GTA or ex-GTA fans) already doubt Rockstar so...

Edited by TUN3R

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