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#1 Dmac

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:26 AM

So what are your thoughts on Windows 8? Will you eventually "upgrade" or have you already done so?

For now, I am sticking to Windows 7. It's my favourite Windows OS to date (followed by good old XP) and I have no plans of ditching it as of yet. I personally feel they've stripped everything that once made Windows, Windows!

What is your opinion on it?

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#2 Huckleberry Pie

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:40 AM

The Metro UI, most especially the start screen, was quite awkward to use on a keyboard-and-mouse interface. I can get away with that by using a Start Menu addon, but at least some apps won't work on Windows 8 - on the beta, that is.

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#3 Gerard

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:46 AM

For once, Huck is absolutely right!

Windows 8 is made for touchscreens and tablets. That's how it works best, and on those it really is great (once you've figured out the swipes and charms).

But for keyboards and mice, it's hopeless. Yes, there are a bunch of keyboard shortcuts to open up the various menus, but you still have to use silly mouse gestures, and that should NOT be how an operating system works.

The other problem is that SO much of the OS is still in the old-style desktop and old-style control panel. Different settings (even for the same thing, like networking) are spread out across two or three different places. This is hugely confusing for users and totally off-putting for IT pros. Not to mention how hard it is just to shut down!

What was wrong with the start menu? Sure it could have done with a refresh, maybe even a full-screen version, maybe even with live tiles, but the new metro Start screen is useless in comparison. With the start menu, in about half a second I could open up any program, utility or control panel applet, or shut-down, or . Now it's a bunch of faffing around. Even once you have the "hang" of it and use shortcuts, it's still a couple of seconds, and nowhere as intuitive or pleasant to use.

I get the feeling that Windows 8 was designed as a completely separate OS for tablets, but some genius decided to completely replace the tried-and-test Windows 7 system (with start menus etc), and call this tablet OS "Windows 8" in order to drive sales and adoption. Millions of companies will be effectively forced to upgrade to Win8 to benefit from the latest updates and software etc.

I can see why they wouldn't want to make two competing ecosystems, but Windows RT will a great tablet product (when they fix bits of it, like the settings), and it should have stayed as a tablet OS.

So yeah, not a huge fan.

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#4 MrLlamaLlama

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

It's far too-well designed. I don't understand why they didn't just give 7 a refresh, the usual bugfizes and usability improvements that come with new versions with accents of the metro creeping in. Microsoft have apple envy, and they took it way too far.

I'll stick with 7 until some third party invariably finds a way to turn it all off.

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#5 BlackListedB

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

Windows 7 and 64bit version COAs aren't plentiful so I still have yet to commit ONE COA for Win7 to any one PC, I just install for the first 30 days and see how it holds up, but there have been issues, never smooth sailing with my latest upgrades in PC land, whereas my first PC with Windows Millennium never crashes, and still doesn't. Windows ME and Vista both worked for me, but some how Win7 was found more finicky, Vista did suffer from KSOD under my use, but only one time, thank the Lord!!

KSOD is like BSOD, only Black and Blue use the same letter, so K is used in place for Vista's issue, it results in nothing but a pointer remaining on the screen, Windows boots but nothing works other then the onscreen pointer, my solution was to REINSTALL the OS from it's main disc over the old Vista format, which created some files replicas and that my friends, eats up space on a HDD!!

Windows 8 is not going to be the natural successor to Windows 7, believe that! Windows 9 will.
Win8 is merely morphing the Win7 build to incorporate the hardware necessary for portable touchscreen electronics, nothing too much beyond that, so I never envisioned Win8 as a gaming platform other then something that will allow possible games that work and are written for Windows to run on those same portable devices supporting it, it should still give you the API needed for true HD on a PC, so no worries there I'd say

Also note that if you get Windows 8 in RT form, say to run on nVidia Tegra, you're not getting the best version for portable devices, that will come next year, HOWEVER, Windows 8 Pro upgrades from computer store Microcenter are good for a massive savings until December 2, 2012!! That means, if you want it for LESS THEN 40 BUCKS, and you happen to know of a store near you, GET ON IT ASAP!!!
The deal ends, Windows will cost $100 or more, up to $200 I believe for the standard Pro version.
I am interested in trying Windows 8 Pro, upgrading a Vista install in fact, but my main question is switching from 32 bit to 64 bit, I'll pass this on to you guys; that if you plan to do this, it is a process not unlike a fresh install over your old, but perhaps the UPGRADE disc will allow you this upgrade path. I failed to ask a clerk about it, but I would imagine somewhere online someone wondered the same.

@Gerard, you're wrong about the complicated shutting down, you don't need to direct a computer to software shutdown switching, the HARDWARE intended On-Off is used as it orginally was conceptualized, the old START menu navigation harkens way back to Windows 95, where you directed the OS to a shutdown mode, now you command your hardware's on-off switch function to act as you'd like it to and just press, instant on- instant off,

Also all four sides of the NORMAL screen act to bring up the un-seen parts that were missing in the initial build. Microsoft already commented on why they refuse to return to the START taskbar button, that besides hot-keys or mouse gestures, the latest version of Win8 should have more speedy command custom options then you maybe aware prior.

I'm still using Windows 8 from the pre-release, but I'm sure I'll be prompted to pay to continue use, but on the same token, it will have all the latest refinements to the software. The RT version is the WINDOWS 8 LITE, not the more robust version planned to release next year, so wait for that one if you're fine with paying the normal cost for it

Edited by BlackListedB, 11 November 2012 - 05:14 PM.


#6 Gerard

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:17 PM

Another problem I have is with all apps being full-screen. I live my life with many windows open, CONSTANTLY switching between them. I'm watching for notifications and popups, messages being received, downloads completing, I'm managing dragging files between windows and into programs. None of that works well on an iPad, so WHY are Microsoft trying to emulate them with Win8?

Yes, I know you can pin things to the side, but that's nowhere near the same flexibility as you have now. When I worked for Microsoft and did their Win7 training, everyone I showed the snap feature to thought it was wonderful. A simple, intuitive feature that makes life SO much easier. Why wasn't Win8 just millions more features like that? Then a separate Surface OS could be built - from scratch - on the WP7/WP8 codebase with an entirely touch-friendly UI, only working with touch-friendly apps. That would be an attractive option, but the real Windows would also still be an option. Win win. Not this gamble we have now.

my solution was to REINSTALL the OS from it's main disc over the old Vista format, which created some files replicas and that my friends, eats up space on a HDD!!

Hmm... when you do a fresh re-install (without formatting the disk), it moves the old OS into a /Windows_old/ folder. You can then just pick what you need out of it, then delete it. If you don't have enough space to do that even temporarily, then copy what you need off it and format it.

Windows 8 is not going to be the natural successor to Windows 7, believe that! Windows 9 will.

Win8, to me, feels like a demo of a new technology, like the old Microsoft Surface table computers. With the old desktop and control panels still there (even in RT), Windows 9 will no doubt feel a lot more polished. But it's going to be hard for them to go backwards at all, to make it more like Win7 (where certain things in Win8 don't work), so they're only going to go further and further 'forward' to make it MORE tablety, which is scary. It's actually quite sad that we won't see the start menu again - that's never going to be perfected.

Win8 is merely morphing the Win7 build to incorporate the hardware necessary for portable touchscreen electronics, nothing too much beyond that, so I never envisioned Win8 as a gaming platform other then something that will allow possible games that work and are written for Windows to run on those same portable devices supporting it, it should still give you the API needed for true HD on a PC, so no worries there I'd say

That's not true at all - Win8 has a lot more (deep down) than just a touch upgrade. Have you seen it boot up? I'm not going to pretend that everything has changed

HOWEVER, Windows 8 Pro upgrades from computer store Microcenter are good for a massive savings until December 2, 2012!! That means, if you want it for LESS THEN 40 BUCKS, and you happen to know of a store near you, GET ON IT ASAP!!!
The deal ends, Windows will cost $100 or more, up to $200 I believe for the standard Pro version.

That sounds like an advert.... you don't work for them do you...?

I am interested in trying Windows 8 Pro, upgrading a Vista install in fact, but my main question is switching from 32 bit to 64 bit, I'll pass this on to you guys; that if you plan to do this, it is a process not unlike a fresh install over your old, but perhaps the UPGRADE disc will allow you this upgrade path. I failed to ask a clerk about it, but I would imagine somewhere online someone wondered the same.

With Windows 7+8, the upgrade disk is identical to the install disk. This is because you can't upgrade directly from XP, you have to do a fresh install. So yes, you can do a fresh install with the upgrade disk. Only the licence is different, so as long as you have legit XP or Vista that's fine.

@Gerard, you're wrong about the complicated shutting down, you don't need to direct a computer to software shutdown switching, the HARDWARE intended On-Off is used as it orginally was conceptualized, the old START menu navigation harkens way back to Windows 95, where you directed the OS to a shutdown mode, now you command your hardware's on-off switch function to act as you'd like it to and just press, instant on- instant off,

That works great for tablets. Not so great for desktops, forcing users to bend under a table to hit the power button. And it doesn't work at all for virtualised or remote desktop environments. I've mostly used Win8 in a VM, hence wanting the soft shutdown from the UI. But it's not just shutdown, it's also the reboot and log off functions.

Don't forget Windows Server 2012 is the same UI as Win8, and if you're in the same city as the power button then you're doing it wrong! I have no idea why Microsoft thought that a tablet interface is the best option for server management, but I guess they just want you to be able to use it on the same devices as you currently do.

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#7 Huckleberry Pie

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:02 PM

For once, Huck is absolutely right!

Windows 8 is made for touchscreens and tablets. That's how it works best, and on those it really is great (once you've figured out the swipes and charms).

But for keyboards and mice, it's hopeless. Yes, there are a bunch of keyboard shortcuts to open up the various menus, but you still have to use silly mouse gestures, and that should NOT be how an operating system works.

The other problem is that SO much of the OS is still in the old-style desktop and old-style control panel. Different settings (even for the same thing, like networking) are spread out across two or three different places. This is hugely confusing for users and totally off-putting for IT pros. Not to mention how hard it is just to shut down!

What was wrong with the start menu? Sure it could have done with a refresh, maybe even a full-screen version, maybe even with live tiles, but the new metro Start screen is useless in comparison. With the start menu, in about half a second I could open up any program, utility or control panel applet, or shut-down, or . Now it's a bunch of faffing around. Even once you have the "hang" of it and use shortcuts, it's still a couple of seconds, and nowhere as intuitive or pleasant to use.

I get the feeling that Windows 8 was designed as a completely separate OS for tablets, but some genius decided to completely replace the tried-and-test Windows 7 system (with start menus etc), and call this tablet OS "Windows 8" in order to drive sales and adoption. Millions of companies will be effectively forced to upgrade to Win8 to benefit from the latest updates and software etc.

I can see why they wouldn't want to make two competing ecosystems, but Windows RT will a great tablet product (when they fix bits of it, like the settings), and it should have stayed as a tablet OS.

So yeah, not a huge fan.


And this one's coming from a Microsoft employee, too.

If you ask me it felt like they insisted on changing the car's driving controls to something that's different from a wheel and pedal interface which pretty much everyone is accustomed to despite being a century old. I'm also bummed at the fullscreen approach to things as you mentioned, all for the same reasons since I often cycle through notifications, chat messages and other things.

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#8 BlackListedB

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:47 AM

From what I'd read, Windows 8 is marketed as touch OS, but as the latest greatest, despite what you said about my inaccuracies, Windows 9 and Windows 8 will be the major difference I'm getting at, aimed at Desktops solely, versus a way to bridge the OS, which is what Win8 is. Without the need for a portable competition for consumer dollars, there'd be no need to offer Windows 8 as it stands, allowing an OS for any actual touch notebooks or tablets laptops would still have a need for a Windows like OS, remember Windows CE?

#9 _Ray

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:16 AM

I don't understand why they even made Windows 8 in the first place! Windows 7 was a great product and they could easily still be selling licenses for it, making money like they did for years with XP!

I've been using Windows 8 in a VM too, and it literally feels just like iOS. When I get on my Windows 7 computer, I'm at the center of power, able to do pretty much anything. Then I hop on Windows 8 and it's like I'm using my phone again, not able to do anything quickly or efficiently.

Edited by _Ray, 20 November 2012 - 02:17 AM.

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#10 Huckleberry Pie

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:13 AM

Besides that, some of the oft-used options conveniently placed in previous versions of Windows have been tucked away some place else, much to my dismay. Like Safe Mode for example - in versions prior to 8 accessing safe mode or basically any other recovery option is just an F8 away, while in 8 you'll have to reboot after selecting the alternative launch options.

Also, I DO NOT understand the point of having to log off before powering down the system, when I could just hit the Shut down button on the start menu in W7.

The interface isn't that much of a concern if you ask me, but my real concern is that they're moving goalposts every time they make changes to the Windows API, and as such applications written for previous versions would not work, whereas Wine for Linux is able to boot 16-bit Windows applications on 64-bit versions of Linux.

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#11 Spaz The Great

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:44 AM

Yeah, I hated Vista, but I felt very comfortable with 7, and I was testing it on quite an old machine, and it was actually running faster than XP on it. Noticeably quicker start-up even. I haven't even switched over to 7 yet, but I can see myself using it for quite a while. Eh, fuck 'em, who cares really? It's their damn product.

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#12 Gerard

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

Like Safe Mode for example - in versions prior to 8 accessing safe mode or basically any other recovery option is just an F8 away, while in 8 you'll have to reboot after selecting the alternative launch options.

Yeah safe mode is a bitch on win8 if you can't boot the system. You have to use bcdedit to make a second boot option that has safe mode enabled. That could be a really big issue along the line.


Also, I DO NOT understand the point of having to log off before powering down the system, when I could just hit the Shut down button on the start menu in W7.

That's not true, that's only one way to shut down. If you go to the charms bar (on the right), click settings, power options are at the bottom. It's still 3/4 mouse clicks and about 7 on the keyboard but it's there. Best thing to do is create a shutdown shortcut and pin that to the start screen. Still a huge hassle though.

The reason behind this is that Windows 8 is designed to be put on standby and resumed - generally using the hardware power button on tablets or laptops (or by opening/closing the lid) - rather than shutdown or rebooted often. But for those that do need to shutdown, or those running in VMs or remotely, it's a pain.


Things like that make it - to me - a bad OS. Sure, it's great for tablets and on touchscreen laptops, and sure it's got a lot of improvements in things like startup time etc, but it's awful for most people and for power users to use.


The interface isn't that much of a concern if you ask me, but my real concern is that they're moving goalposts every time they make changes to the Windows API, and as such applications written for previous versions would not work, whereas Wine for Linux is able to boot 16-bit Windows applications on 64-bit versions of Linux.

I'm not sure that's really the case. With XP Mode (which is touted as a 'feature' of Windows 7), 16-bit applications can still run. Just not natively. In a big company there are many options to remedy this, such as App-V, and it's not an issue that most users or admins would ever face.

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#13 Huckleberry Pie

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:27 PM

I almost forgot about that mode, now that you mentioned the XP virtualisation feature. And yeah, even if the power button is there, it really is a hassle to find and hunt that button down, especially if you're just using it for the first time.

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#14 amazingdude

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

When i looked at the preview of 8 my first impression was that it wasn't windows at all. Then again i remembered Bill Gates doing a video after the launch of 7 holding a tab and showing how the next OS would be with a total new interface with the user.

I dont think anyone directly switching from XP to 8 would be very comfortable in learning the basics of 8. I would recommend to watch some videos of the operations of the OS before using it.

Microsoft released it as just a "hit and trial" product.

Edited by amazingdude, 21 November 2012 - 03:49 AM.


#15 Alvas.

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:55 AM

I think that Windows 8 is great(or at least can be great), if MS pulls this off properly it might just bring the post-pc era. But 8 doesn't really work with a mouse, it wasn't made for that, touch is where it excels.

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#16 BlackListedB

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:41 PM

I should update the reply I got about making space when you had to reformat and Windows creates it's OLD folders with your original content, I found a dated Q and A section in PC World or Maximum PC where they give an outline to use WIndows' own features to eliminate the wasted space (where you'd have duplicates of files reinstalled) However, I believe third party utilities also address finding things of that nature in the more abstract, for instance Registry repair entries often relate to similar problems that wind up ultimately slowing down the overall performance operational speed.

Windows 8 supports gestures, and touchpads allow that, which can be bought for PCs as well as laptop stand-alones. Dell even has a Bluetooth touchpad included full size KEYBOARD! That's wireless for any device you need one!

Windows 8 is still getting press, it's Pro and final consumer editions are out for RT devices, running off nVidia's Tegra for example, but if you're really sold on an XP or Vista, or Win7 replacement upgrade, you'd do well to wait buying Windows 8 till later THIS YEAR!

That's when the more powerful processor version was set to arrive, which it hasn't yet, I've not heard official word, as they are pushing to sell what's out now, obviously, but if you're key on a full PC capable WIn8, I'll report any news I happen across, so just keep tuned in here! haha

On the issue of Shutting down, just press your power key, or upper right control icon avatar, I believe they simplified the approach, I still use XP though, and Vista, no real qualms for me. Pressing the POWER button is probably handy a way of turning the OS on and off for various portable versions, and having it come on and go off as quick as possible

Edited by BlackListedB, 01 January 2013 - 09:51 PM.


#17 Gerard

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:53 PM

I should update the reply I got about making space when you had to reformat and Windows creates it's OLD folders with your original content, I found a dated Q and A section in PC World or Maximum PC where they give an outline to use WIndows' own features to eliminate the wasted space (where you'd have duplicates of files reinstalled) However, I believe third party utilities also address finding things of that nature in the more abstract, for instance Registry repair entries often relate to similar problems that wind up ultimately slowing down the overall performance operational speed.

Duplicate registry entries don't cause problems these days. Applications aren't fighting over 128k of RAM anymore, most Win8 machines will have 4GB, so a few registry entries won't cause a problem. Even defragmenting a hard drive isn't a massive issue these days - the technology is fast enough for most situations.

For some reason, people still PAY for programs like that, completely unnecessarily. The number 1 best thing you can do to speed up ANY PC is to change the startup entries. A store-bought PC will come with dozens of crapware programs, hardware GUIs and browser toolbars installed. Even normal programs like iTunes slow you down, not just at boot but the entire time it's running (which is all the time).


On the issue of Shutting down, just press your power key, or upper right control icon avatar, I believe they simplified the approach, I still use XP though, and Vista, no real qualms for me. Pressing the POWER button is probably handy a way of turning the OS on and off for various portable versions, and having it come on and go off as quick as possible

The avatar with your username only has a "Log Off" link, not shutdown (a stupid omission by MSFT). That would be the logical place, but it's not there. You have to open the Settings Charm bar on the right. Using a keyboard, that's 7 keystrokes iirc.

A power key is fine on tablets or laptops, but not great on desktops (having to reach under the desk, particularly for less-flexible people) and completely wrong for VMs or remote desktops. Don't forget that Windows Server 2012 has the same UI.

What was so wrong with Start > Shutdown?

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#18 Huckleberry Pie

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:59 AM

Duplicate registry entries don't cause problems these days. Applications aren't fighting over 128k of RAM anymore, most Win8 machines will have 4GB, so a few registry entries won't cause a problem. Even defragmenting a hard drive isn't a massive issue these days - the technology is fast enough for most situations.

For some reason, people still PAY for programs like that, completely unnecessarily. The number 1 best thing you can do to speed up ANY PC is to change the startup entries. A store-bought PC will come with dozens of crapware programs, hardware GUIs and browser toolbars installed. Even normal programs like iTunes slow you down, not just at boot but the entire time it's running (which is all the time).


I don't get the point with registry cleaners, either. Bloatware on OEM systems are also the reason why I prefer to buy a store-bought PC that comes as a blank-slate for me to install things on.

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#19 BlackListedB

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:56 AM

I remember the olde dayz of Your System is Ready to Shutdown, with Windows 95 and 98, the PC just redied itself to be shutdown manually, and some people resort to old school power on/ power off via switches and buttons, but Windows or other OS systems have to do some prep work, even USB devices can be sped up to remove a little faster. Anyway, the idea to roll out a new Windows or any new OS is to revamp a bit more then the visual gloss. Vista was Longhorn for years in the skunk works, and even when it came out, it needed more then a bit of spit and polish

The funny thing I think is my Windows is still from Consumer Preview and works, no prompt to pay up to a commercial version, so I am still running it for free. I also burned the Developer's Preview... you guys imagine still using that version now?!?!?

For PWR on and Off on a desktop, can't you do a mouse gesture for that?! haha

Edited by BlackListedB, 07 January 2013 - 01:58 AM.


#20 TrialByFire

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:03 PM

I am not sure why Microsoft do this... It seems that they go through a development process of releasing a pretty damn good OS (XP), then they announce their new OS (Vista) which turns out to be real pain in the ass, they realise they have fucked up so they announce their latest OS (7) which is essentially the previous OS but better and without all the bullshit and now they have announced 8 and its terrible for desktops. What goes in their offices every other iteration? Do they get cocky and carried away? Still I am fairly certain I wont be getting windows 8 I will just wait for their next OS which based on past experience should be fantastic.

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